Hi,
My dealer service list shows the above two items for
every 15000 miles. However, the LS owner manual
says that ATF is added as needed and did not mention
the Differential oil service. Also, dealer’s list
includes replacement of air filter at 15000 miles.
This also appears to be excessive.
By the way, can some one explain the "differential
oil"? My impression is that this is a high grade
(visicosity)oil that lubricates the differential gears.
Do I understand it correctly?
I’d hear comments from LS lovers. Thanks.
JJ
For max transmission and rear axle life, I think it is a good idea to change
these fluids every 5-years or so, maybe more often if you tow or subject the
drivetrain to very hot conditions, but 15K is borderline ridiculous. Most
cars today advertise these fluids as "lifetime" and many do fine without
changing them at all.
The differential fluid is the heavy gear oil in the rear axle.
Air filter replacement at 15K is also aggressive, but most need it at about
twice that and 15K could be justified if you drive in dusty conditions.
Many dealers generate extra service revenue by recommending service above
and beyond the mfg’s guidelines. You can make a weak case for some of this
stuff, but not this. I’d tell them you don’t want this stuff and expect a
commensurate reduction in price. If they balk, or refuse to adjust the
pricing appropriately, find another dealer or a good independent shop.
- Mark
My dealer recommends those, too. It is indeed excessive.
Toyota recommends no ATF change (see the dipstick.) Unless you often tow your
boat or drive high speed in desert climate, then do it every 2-3 years. I
personally would change the ATF every 5 years or so because of the stop-n-go
city driving.
Changing ATF might actually hurt your tranny if the tech didn’t put the
correct amount in. It’s tricky to put the right amount of ATF into it. It
takes a lot of time and patience to get a proper reading.
The differential oil should be good for the life of the vehicle. You should
do a flush and change the differential oil only if your LS was driven through
deep water and the differential was submerged.
- Frank
In article <62120b2f.0208111216.29751…@posting.google.com>,
jjho_1…@hotmail.com says…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>Hi,
>My dealer service list shows the above two items for
>every 15000 miles. However, the LS owner manual
>says that ATF is added as needed and did not mention
>the Differential oil service. Also, dealer’s list
>includes replacement of air filter at 15000 miles.
>This also appears to be excessive.
>By the way, can some one explain the "differential
>oil"? My impression is that this is a high grade
>(visicosity)oil that lubricates the differential gears.
>Do I understand it correctly?
>I’d hear comments from LS lovers. Thanks.
>JJ
Regarding ATF on an LS. The car was designed for frequent tranny oil
changes, at least mine is. There is a drain plug on the bottom of the pan
and it’s easy to get to. I change my ATF every other engine oil change
(i.e., engine at 5k and ATF at 10k). It keeps the transmission shifting
properly. I also make sure that I use the recommended fluid, Toyota Type
T-IV. Getting the amounts right is not all that hard. Weigh or measure how
much comes out and put back just a little less and bring up to the proper
level after some driving. Make sure you put the new fluid in very very
slowly since the dip tube is not too big.
Regarding differential fluid. It may be good for the life of the car,
however, I don’t view that as the limiting factor. Heat cycling through
normal use causes the air in the housing to get "breathed in and out." As
that happens, water condenses in the oil and the oil starts to lose it’s
lubricity. Hence, I change the oil because it accumulates contamination not
because the oil fails. I changed mine every fall. Again the design of the
car is such that it’s not hard.
I’m a DIY on easy stuff like this. I love the way this car is designed and
assembled – it’s fun to work on. I imagine it’s pretty pricey at the
dealers.
"Frank Yang" <frankcy…@hotmail.YEEHAW.com> wrote in message
news:JzQ59.37$cV1.1@nwrddc04.gnilink.net…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> My dealer recommends those, too. It is indeed excessive.
> Toyota recommends no ATF change (see the dipstick.) Unless you often tow
your
> boat or drive high speed in desert climate, then do it every 2-3 years. I
> personally would change the ATF every 5 years or so because of the
stop-n-go
> city driving.
> Changing ATF might actually hurt your tranny if the tech didn’t put the
> correct amount in. It’s tricky to put the right amount of ATF into it.
It
> takes a lot of time and patience to get a proper reading.
> The differential oil should be good for the life of the vehicle. You
should
> do a flush and change the differential oil only if your LS was driven
through
> deep water and the differential was submerged.
> – Frank
> In article <62120b2f.0208111216.29751…@posting.google.com>,
> jjho_1…@hotmail.com says…
> >Hi,
> >My dealer service list shows the above two items for
> >every 15000 miles. However, the LS owner manual
> >says that ATF is added as needed and did not mention
> >the Differential oil service. Also, dealer’s list
> >includes replacement of air filter at 15000 miles.
> >This also appears to be excessive.
> >By the way, can some one explain the "differential
> >oil"? My impression is that this is a high grade
> >(visicosity)oil that lubricates the differential gears.
> >Do I understand it correctly?
> >I’d hear comments from LS lovers. Thanks.
> >JJ
What year LS? Frank
"JJ HO" <jjho_1…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:62120b2f.0208111216.29751346@posting.google.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> Hi,
> My dealer service list shows the above two items for
> every 15000 miles. However, the LS owner manual
> says that ATF is added as needed and did not mention
> the Differential oil service. Also, dealer’s list
> includes replacement of air filter at 15000 miles.
> This also appears to be excessive.
> By the way, can some one explain the "differential
> oil"? My impression is that this is a high grade
> (visicosity)oil that lubricates the differential gears.
> Do I understand it correctly?
> I’d hear comments from LS lovers. Thanks.
> JJ
93
"Frank" <oscar…@netzero.net> wrote in message
news:Pz_59.40802$Ce.2204287@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> What year LS? Frank
> "JJ HO" <jjho_1…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:62120b2f.0208111216.29751346@posting.google.com…
> > Hi,
> > My dealer service list shows the above two items for
> > every 15000 miles. However, the LS owner manual
> > says that ATF is added as needed and did not mention
> > the Differential oil service. Also, dealer’s list
> > includes replacement of air filter at 15000 miles.
> > This also appears to be excessive.
> > By the way, can some one explain the "differential
> > oil"? My impression is that this is a high grade
> > (visicosity)oil that lubricates the differential gears.
> > Do I understand it correctly?
> > I’d hear comments from LS lovers. Thanks.
> > JJ
That’s a very good tip on measuring ATF. I didn’t think of that. Too bad
that most mechanics just dump it into the pan.
- Frank
In article <RgY59.65104$5E1.59…@news2.central.cox.net>, mike…@cox.net
says…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>Regarding ATF on an LS. The car was designed for frequent tranny oil
>changes, at least mine is. There is a drain plug on the bottom of the pan
>and it’s easy to get to. I change my ATF every other engine oil change
>(i.e., engine at 5k and ATF at 10k). It keeps the transmission shifting
>properly. I also make sure that I use the recommended fluid, Toyota Type
>T-IV. Getting the amounts right is not all that hard. Weigh or measure how
>much comes out and put back just a little less and bring up to the proper
>level after some driving. Make sure you put the new fluid in very very
>slowly since the dip tube is not too big.
>Regarding differential fluid. It may be good for the life of the car,
>however, I don’t view that as the limiting factor. Heat cycling through
>normal use causes the air in the housing to get "breathed in and out." As
>that happens, water condenses in the oil and the oil starts to lose it’s
>lubricity. Hence, I change the oil because it accumulates contamination not
>because the oil fails. I changed mine every fall. Again the design of the
>car is such that it’s not hard.
>I’m a DIY on easy stuff like this. I love the way this car is designed and
>assembled – it’s fun to work on. I imagine it’s pretty pricey at the
>dealers.
Up to 2000 model year (when T-II was changed to T-IV) we change it every
15,000 miles. 2000 to date, we change it every 60,000 miles. This goes for
all models except the LX, which is still using Dexron. Frank
"M" <mike…@cox.net> wrote in message
news:VQ669.66675$5E1.57813@news2.central.cox.net…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> 93
> "Frank" <oscar…@netzero.net> wrote in message
> news:Pz_59.40802$Ce.2204287@bin3.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com…
> > What year LS? Frank
> > "JJ HO" <jjho_1…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> > news:62120b2f.0208111216.29751346@posting.google.com…
> > > Hi,
> > > My dealer service list shows the above two items for
> > > every 15000 miles. However, the LS owner manual
> > > says that ATF is added as needed and did not mention
> > > the Differential oil service. Also, dealer’s list
> > > includes replacement of air filter at 15000 miles.
> > > This also appears to be excessive.
> > > By the way, can some one explain the "differential
> > > oil"? My impression is that this is a high grade
> > > (visicosity)oil that lubricates the differential gears.
> > > Do I understand it correctly?
> > > I’d hear comments from LS lovers. Thanks.
> > > JJ
> My dealer service list shows the above two items for
> every 15000 miles.
Standard dealer revenue enhancement b.s.
In normal service if you want to change the ATF fluid and rear diff fluid
every four years/50,000 miles it might be a reasonable thing to do. Every
15,000 on a car which does not call for it in the factory books is just a
way to get more of your money.
Personally I don’t do business with dealers who play those games, which
rules out a lot of dealers!
John
Just check you owners manual and ignore the dealer recommendation.
"John Horner" <jthor…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ur1bv851t5jddf@corp.supernews.com…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> > My dealer service list shows the above two items for
> > every 15000 miles.
> Standard dealer revenue enhancement b.s.
> In normal service if you want to change the ATF fluid and rear diff fluid
> every four years/50,000 miles it might be a reasonable thing to do. Every
> 15,000 on a car which does not call for it in the factory books is just a
> way to get more of your money.
> Personally I don’t do business with dealers who play those games, which
> rules out a lot of dealers!
> John
In article <ur1bv851t5j…@corp.supernews.com>, jthor…@yahoo.com says…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>> My dealer service list shows the above two items for
>> every 15000 miles.
>Standard dealer revenue enhancement b.s.
>In normal service if you want to change the ATF fluid and rear diff fluid
>every four years/50,000 miles it might be a reasonable thing to do. Every
>15,000 on a car which does not call for it in the factory books is just a
>way to get more of your money.
>Personally I don’t do business with dealers who play those games, which
>rules out a lot of dealers!
>John
Agree. The factory recommendation is no ATF change under normal condition.
It says so on the ATF dipstick. I’d change it every 4 years or 48K miles to
keep it fresh. No differential fluid change, ever, unless the car was
submerged in the water.
- Frank
In article <20021020002137.06711.00003…@mb-ca.aol.com>, chipst…@aol.comity
says…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>>Agree. The factory recommendation is no ATF change under normal condition.
>>It says so on the ATF dipstick. I’d change it every 4 years or 48K miles to
>>keep it fresh. No differential fluid change, ever, unless the car was
>>submerged in the water.
>>- Frank
>Frank…. I have a 2003 Corolla. While the little label on the dipstick says
>"No fluid change is required under normal conditions", the blue "Scheduled
>Maintenance Guide" book that was included with the Owners Manual DOES IN FACT
>specify that ATF fluid shall be changed at 30k mile intervals.
>Now… considering one of these A245E 4spd automatic transaxles costs around
>$3500 to rebuild, I sure as hell am not going to skimp on a few fluid changes
>that are proven to extend transmission life.
>You’re being penny wise and pound foolish to assume the transaxle requires no
>service.
Please read my message again. I change my ATF every 4 years or 48K miles in
all my cars.
ATF life span depends on its operating temperature. Note that the Corolla
does not have a tranny cooler like the AWD RX300. So you’re comparing apples
with oranges. (No offense intended, Corolla is a fine car. I’d buy one if I
were in the market for a small car.)
Like most economy cars, all it has is a pipe that runs coolant through the
tranny casing. Which works fine in most cases, but won’t help in extreme heat
condition. ATF will overheat and shorten its life span, which makes fluid
change a wise decision. In the AWD RX300, there is sufficient cooling system
to keep the ATF cool even when towing. (The 2WD RX300 has a tow package that
adds ATF cooling.)
- Frank
>Please read my message again. I change my ATF every 4 years or 48K miles in
>all my cars.
I read your post… I even included the 48k service part.
>ATF life span depends on its operating temperature. Note that the Corolla
>does not have a tranny cooler like the AWD RX300. So you’re comparing apples
>with oranges. (No offense intended, Corolla is a fine car. I’d buy one if I
>were in the market for a small car.)
In the interest of fuel economy, all OEM transmission heat exchangers are
mounted in the radiator tank. Some applications run an additional oil-to-air
cooler in series with the heat exchanger. Take another look at what you have.
>Like most economy cars, all it has is a pipe that runs coolant through the
>tranny casing. Which works fine in most cases, but won’t help in extreme
>heat
>condition.
False. Automatic transmissions typically route pressurized oil from the oil
pump to the pressure controlled main gallery. Some oil is bled off to the
cooler and returned to the pan. There are variations on that theme but in no
case does engine coolant run thru the transmission casing. Where did you get
that idea?
Frank… you really need to get yourself educated better.
–Philip
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human
passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for
a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any
other."
In article <20021021034539.10843.00003…@mb-fv.aol.com>, chipst…@aol.comity
says…
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
>>Please read my message again. I change my ATF every 4 years or 48K miles in
>>all my cars.
>I read your post… I even included the 48k service part.
>>ATF life span depends on its operating temperature. Note that the Corolla
>>does not have a tranny cooler like the AWD RX300. So you’re comparing
apples
>>with oranges. (No offense intended, Corolla is a fine car. I’d buy one if
I
>>were in the market for a small car.)
>In the interest of fuel economy, all OEM transmission heat exchangers are
>mounted in the radiator tank. Some applications run an additional oil-to-air
>cooler in series with the heat exchanger. Take another look at what you
have.
> >Like most economy cars, all it has is a pipe that runs coolant through the
>>tranny casing. Which works fine in most cases, but won’t help in extreme
>>heat
>>condition.
>False. Automatic transmissions typically route pressurized oil from the oil
>pump to the pressure controlled main gallery. Some oil is bled off to the
>cooler and returned to the pan. There are variations on that theme but in no
>case does engine coolant run thru the transmission casing. Where did you get
>that idea?
>Frank… you really need to get yourself educated better.
> –Philip
>"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human
>passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only
for
>a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of
any
>other."
If you think that you get a real tranny cooler or heat exchanger, you better
check your vehicle again. You get one of those in some SUVs (generally those
for towing.) Passenger cars get a simple pipe through, because their tranny
don’t overheat in most conditions so there’s no need for an elaborate setup.
Insulting other people does not give you more knowledge, it just gives the
appearance that you do.
- Frank
>If you think that you get a real tranny cooler or heat exchanger, you better
>check your vehicle again. You get one of those in some SUVs (generally those
>for towing.) Passenger cars get a simple pipe through, because their tranny
>don’t overheat in most conditions so there’s no need for an elaborate setup.
Frank, a "heat exchanger" is device werein heat can travel in either direction.
Heat travels to the cooler surface. The heat transfer device (heat exchanger)
is located in the radiator’s outlet tank. When the engine coolant is hotter
than the transmission fluid, the engine coolant will heat the transmission
fluid. When the transmission fluid becomes hotter than the engine coolant,
heat transfers from the transmission fluid to the engine coolant. See? A
simple "cooler" is the transmission fluid to air cooler typically found mounted
in front or along side the A/C condenser. This device cannot heat the
transmission fluid. When you run ONLY a transmission cooler, the transmission
takes MUCH longer to achieve a normalized temperature (which is lower than
engine coolant temp unless pulling a heavy load) which is good for longevity
but has a bad effect on fuel mileage.
I’d still like to know where you got the notiion that engine coolant circulated
around thru the automatic transmission case. That’s a whopper! Again, it’s
been quite some time since I’ve seen so much automotive folklore from a single
poster.
–Philip
"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human
passions unbridled by morality and religion. Our Constitution was made only for
a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any
other."
the car would not pass smog with the stock wires with the new wires it passed
with flying colors.
Mike Simmons
99 KTM 300 MXC
AMA/ Dist.36
Hayward Honda/Suzuki/Sea-Doo 510-886-0644
D-H Cycles KTM/Suzuki/Cannondale Modesto
Motowerx livermore Ca
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