Comments on: Here's One For Everbody. Any Suggestions?

By: admin

admin — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:44:14 +0000

"Tom Wachtl" wrote in message

news:ki9M9.88114$Xr6.1304527@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com...

> Had a 1992 Saturn 4 door that did it, have a 2001 300M that does it, and
now
> also have 2002 ES300 that does it. Lexus is not as bad as the other two.

> I just leave the windows closed. I prefer the quiet ride and being able to
> listen to the Mark Livingston stereo.

Levinson;>).

By: admin

admin — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:44:13 +0000

I think it has been pretty fairly said by most of the responses. I too have
noticed the same thing in my GS300 but I also had the same experience with
my BMW540 which I owned previous to the Lexus and previous to that with a MB
320e.

"RBTGT" wrote in message

news:3%TL9.59031$Y86.17928@news2.central.cox.net...

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

> I own a 2002 GS300, and, besides having, to some degree, the acceleration
> issue that everybody else seems to have with the transmission or whatever
> causing the car to hesitate from time-to-time, I have another issue I
wonder
> if anybody else has ever seen or heard of.

> My problem is that you can't drive the car at highway speeds with either
or
> both of the rear windows down. To do so causes a violent vibration in the
> roof and rear window of the car. The vibration is much worse when both
> windows are down as opposed to just one or the other. It is so bad with
both
> windows down that, in my opinion, to drive in this condition for more than
a
> few seconds would cause the rear window of the car to fail! That's how bad
> it is! I swear I'm not kidding!

> I recently took the car to the local Lexus dealership here in Omaha,
> Nebraska, Lexus of Omaha, and had a service advisor go for a ride with me
in
> the vehicle so that I could demonstrate this problem for him. The car
> exhibited the same problem with him in the car that I described prior to
our
> test drive. After the test drive, I got the advisor to admit that they had
> some level of awareness of this issue, but that it has been more of a
> manifestation on RX300's or EX300's (sorry, I can't seem to remember for
> sure which he mentioned at this moment), not so much with GS300's. They
> called the Chicago Zone Office on my behalf who pretty much parroted (so
> they said) what the dealership told me that day. They also basically said
> that there was nothing that could be done since this was an airflow issue
> over and/or through the vehicle and had to with the actual design of the
> body. They said that the roof of the vehicle, under these circumstances,
was
> basically mimicking an airplane wing and that this is what was causing the
> vibration. I suggested that perhaps a headliner change might be in order.
I
> got the impression that this potential fix had been tried before on other
> vehicle(s) to no avail, although they didn't come straight out and say so.
> They suggested that I crack either of the front windows if or when I would
> ever care to drive the vehicle with either or both of the rear windows
down
> in the future. Doing so does make the problem disappear immediately. They
> also suggested to me, and I agree, that most owners were not likely to
often
> be driving their vehicle with just one or both rear windows down often, if
> at all. Because I think they are right about that, I believe that this
> problem is probably far more pervasive than they are either telling me or
> that they realize.

> Has anybody else ever heard this one or something similar before? How big
a
> deal does everybody think I should or should not make of this? The
> dealership was awful nice that day while they were basically telling me "
> Gee, tough shit!". There's nothing in my owner's manual that says
"Warning!
> Do not drive vehicle with either or both rear windows down by themselves
as
> catastrophic failure of the rear window may result!" It is unfathomable to
> me that a car that costs this much would not have been extensively wind
> tunnel tested so that any issue like this could have been designed out of
> the final shape and design of the body. Then again, after first hand
> experience with the "design" of the dry cleaning hooks in the back of the
> car and their "usefulness", maybe I shouldn't be surprised. Don't the
> Japanese ever get anything dry-cleaned? Nothing, EVER, stays on those
hooks
> for long!

> Commentary??? I'm looking for some good advice from fellow owners here so
I
> can make some intelligent decisions about what, if anything I can or
should
> do.

By: admin

admin — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:44:11 +0000

I also own a 2002 GS300. While I've never tried driving with just the rear
windows open, it wouldn't surprise me that some buffeting/booming/resonant
vibration would occur. I've had this happen on 2 previous cars I've owned, one
a Honda Accord, one a Toyota Camry. I tend to think that maybe less attention
is paid to the way cars ride with various combinations of open windows, during
the design process, than may previously have been the case previously. Maybe
this is due to the increasing prevalence of air conditioning/climate control,
perhaps leading to designer expectations that for the most part, people will
leave their windows closed when driving.

I also have noticed the acceleration issue, although it's only truly
significant in my car when the engine is at its coldest, just after starting.
Another issue I have is that the suspension is stiffer than I'd ideally like,
so that more road vibration is transmitted than I'd ideally like. Still another
issue I had was front end vibration at 55-70mph, solved when the dealer
balanced the wheels while they were mounted on the axle.

In my experience with this and with other cars I have owned, all purchased new,
there are inevitable unforeseen features in how they perform. For example, the
Honda Accord I mentioned had a relatively weak air conditioner so on very hot
days it took too long, for my taste, for it to blow truly cold air. The Toyota
Camry I mentioned has unfortunately positioned intakes for the ventilation
system, so that in the "non-recirculate" setting one frequently is inhaling
fumes of other vehicles, and sometimes even its own exhaust fumes.
So far I've been able to get used to these aggravations, which often seemed
like major problems to me initially, but then later seemed like minor or even
almost unimportant issues. Presently I'm still trying to decide if the stiff
suspension on my GS300 is something I'm going to live with (vs trading it in
for something else), but I've noticed that I'm getting more used to it.

Depending upon the climate where you live, it seems to me that riding with rear
window(s) open may not be an option all that often. Unless for some reason it's
vitally important to be able to ride this way, my own personal opinion is that
if you really like most other features of the car, you might want to consider
just living with it.

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

RBTGT wrote:
> I own a 2002 GS300, and, besides having, to some degree, the acceleration
> issue that everybody else seems to have with the transmission or whatever
> causing the car to hesitate from time-to-time, I have another issue I wonder
> if anybody else has ever seen or heard of.

> My problem is that you can't drive the car at highway speeds with either or
> both of the rear windows down. To do so causes a violent vibration in the
> roof and rear window of the car. The vibration is much worse when both
> windows are down as opposed to just one or the other. It is so bad with both
> windows down that, in my opinion, to drive in this condition for more than a
> few seconds would cause the rear window of the car to fail! That's how bad
> it is! I swear I'm not kidding!

> I recently took the car to the local Lexus dealership here in Omaha,
> Nebraska, Lexus of Omaha, and had a service advisor go for a ride with me in
> the vehicle so that I could demonstrate this problem for him. The car
> exhibited the same problem with him in the car that I described prior to our
> test drive. After the test drive, I got the advisor to admit that they had
> some level of awareness of this issue, but that it has been more of a
> manifestation on RX300's or EX300's (sorry, I can't seem to remember for
> sure which he mentioned at this moment), not so much with GS300's. They
> called the Chicago Zone Office on my behalf who pretty much parroted (so
> they said) what the dealership told me that day. They also basically said
> that there was nothing that could be done since this was an airflow issue
> over and/or through the vehicle and had to with the actual design of the
> body. They said that the roof of the vehicle, under these circumstances, was
> basically mimicking an airplane wing and that this is what was causing the
> vibration. I suggested that perhaps a headliner change might be in order. I
> got the impression that this potential fix had been tried before on other
> vehicle(s) to no avail, although they didn't come straight out and say so.
> They suggested that I crack either of the front windows if or when I would
> ever care to drive the vehicle with either or both of the rear windows down
> in the future. Doing so does make the problem disappear immediately. They
> also suggested to me, and I agree, that most owners were not likely to often
> be driving their vehicle with just one or both rear windows down often, if
> at all. Because I think they are right about that, I believe that this
> problem is probably far more pervasive than they are either telling me or
> that they realize.

> Has anybody else ever heard this one or something similar before? How big a
> deal does everybody think I should or should not make of this? The
> dealership was awful nice that day while they were basically telling me "
> Gee, tough shit!". There's nothing in my owner's manual that says "Warning!
> Do not drive vehicle with either or both rear windows down by themselves as
> catastrophic failure of the rear window may result!" It is unfathomable to
> me that a car that costs this much would not have been extensively wind
> tunnel tested so that any issue like this could have been designed out of
> the final shape and design of the body. Then again, after first hand
> experience with the "design" of the dry cleaning hooks in the back of the
> car and their "usefulness", maybe I shouldn't be surprised. Don't the
> Japanese ever get anything dry-cleaned? Nothing, EVER, stays on those hooks
> for long!

> Commentary??? I'm looking for some good advice from fellow owners here so I
> can make some intelligent decisions about what, if anything I can or should
> do.

By: admin

admin — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:44:10 +0000

Oh... and my son's 2001 BMW 330xi does it too.
"phase" wrote in message

news:d5f4e09e.0212180935.5c2d387c@posting.google.com...

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

> hi,

> you just CAN'T do anything against this. i had several cars of several
> (German) brands - same effect more or less.

> conclusion: the better the qualitiy of the car is - the quieter the
> car inside is - the better the wind drag coefficient is - the
> air-tighter the car is - the more air-tightness - the more noise in
> the back.

> do the same with an oldtimer - the air just blows through EVERYWHERE -
> you wont have this effect.

> especially if you own a RX or any other SUV you may want to go through
> water - so the car must be (water) tight: remove the back bumper and
> you will see the rubber shields on the left and right at the side of
> the car which "tighten" your car. this is the little noise you hear
> some milliseconds after you slam the fron door(s) because the shields
> are "blown up"...

> your rear window WON'T come out! if yes, your noise is gone and you
> have clear rear view.... :-)))

> J.

By: admin

admin — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:44:09 +0000

>This is a common problem with most modern cars. (Do a Google search on
>"rear windows booming" and read for yourself.) Virtually all have some
>resonant issues of booming and buffeting with rear windows down. While
>annoying, there really is nothing that can be done about it.

>- Mark

It is TRUELY amazing what people bitch about on this forum. That so many
people are rediscovering the wheel and documenting it is astonishing.

*Philip*
Homeland Security without illegal immigration
control is like changing the batteries in your
smoke alarm after your house has burned down

By: admin

admin — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:44:09 +0000

Had a 1992 Saturn 4 door that did it, have a 2001 300M that does it, and now
also have 2002 ES300 that does it. Lexus is not as bad as the other two.

I just leave the windows closed. I prefer the quiet ride and being able to
listen to the Mark Livingston stereo.

"phase" wrote in message

news:d5f4e09e.0212180935.5c2d387c@posting.google.com...

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

> hi,

> you just CAN'T do anything against this. i had several cars of several
> (German) brands - same effect more or less.

> do the same with an oldtimer - the air just blows through EVERYWHERE -
> you wont have this effect.

> your rear window WON'T come out! if yes, your noise is gone and you
> have clear rear view.... :-)))

> J.

By: admin

admin — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:44:08 +0000

This has happened with my last 3 cars, 2 Jeeps and a BMW. I think it is a
"feature" of modern ventelation systems.

"RBTGT" wrote in message

news:3%TL9.59031$Y86.17928@news2.central.cox.net...

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

> Commentary??? I'm looking for some good advice from fellow owners here so
I
> can make some intelligent decisions about what, if anything I can or
should
> do.

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By: admin

admin — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:44:08 +0000

hi,

you just CAN'T do anything against this. i had several cars of several
(German) brands - same effect more or less.

conclusion: the better the qualitiy of the car is - the quieter the
car inside is - the better the wind drag coefficient is - the
air-tighter the car is - the more air-tightness - the more noise in
the back.

do the same with an oldtimer - the air just blows through EVERYWHERE -
you wont have this effect.

especially if you own a RX or any other SUV you may want to go through
water - so the car must be (water) tight: remove the back bumper and
you will see the rubber shields on the left and right at the side of
the car which "tighten" your car. this is the little noise you hear
some milliseconds after you slam the fron door(s) because the shields
are "blown up"...

your rear window WON'T come out! if yes, your noise is gone and you
have clear rear view.... :-)))

By: admin

admin — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:44:07 +0000

This is a common problem with most modern cars. (Do a Google search on
"rear windows booming" and read for yourself.) Virtually all have some
resonant issues of booming and buffeting with rear windows down. While
annoying, there really is nothing that can be done about it.

- Mark

By: admin

admin — Mon, 30 Nov 2009 15:44:03 +0000

I think you will find most vehicles do this.. not just Lexus. Some will be
worse than others, and headliner changes wont help, it is because the wind
comes through the window at the cars resonant frequency and will cause
severe vibration. Cracking a front window will cancel this resonant
frequency. The only solution to this problem would be to create another
opening in the car... i.e. if one or both rear windows are down and both
front windows are up, create an additional small ventilation by perhaps
opening some valve... but I think most people wont find this to be a
problem, so its not usually worth remedying.

"RBTGT" wrote in message

news:3%TL9.59031$Y86.17928@news2.central.cox.net...

- Hide quoted text -- Show quoted text -

> Commentary??? I'm looking for some good advice from fellow owners here so
I
> can make some intelligent decisions about what, if anything I can or
should
> do.