news:7bb4f8b6.0212251034.4a964357@posting.google.com…
> "Keith Faulkner" <falco…@tiscali.co.uk> wrote in message

<news:3e085285_2@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>…

> > So why have all the Germans voted Lexus best.I have just sold my BMW and
> > bought a Lexus 200. and I think its Great in all respects

> Well, maybe you *will* be very happy you did.

> However, one needs to understand how and why any survey was conducted
> in order to make proper sense of it.

> JD Power surveys are about customer satisfaction.  Their primary goal
> is to present customer feedback to the manufacturer.  The possibility
> of also helping potential customers decide is incidental and is IMHO,
> fraught with problems.

[Snip]

I normally avoid this sort of blatantly trolling threads, but.. just want to
say "spot on" with your assessment of the JD Power surveys.

Useful for those who have already made a decision, but *only* good as
supplemental data. Unless, of course, you’re the sort of person who’d just
go out and buy something just ‘cos it’s "European Car of the Year", or
similar.

Y’know – the sort of person that thinks a Talbot Alpine is a fine classic
car and that the Multipla is a stunningly beautiful sporty number with a
manufacturer reputation for reliable electrics.. (ducks for cover ;o)

All three marques have different buyer profiles, and good luck to the lot of
‘em [us]!

–

Hairy One Kenobi (Who sold his BMW, looked at the IS200 [underpowered, not
the most pretty of cars], and bought a TT)

Disclaimer: the opinions expressed in this opinion do not necessarily
reflect the opinions of the highly-opinionated person expressing the opinion
in the first place. So there!

Well, maybe you *will* be very happy you did.

However, one needs to understand how and why any survey was conducted
in order to make proper sense of it.

JD Power surveys are about customer satisfaction.  Their primary goal
is to present customer feedback to the manufacturer.  The possibility
of also helping potential customers decide is incidental and is IMHO,
fraught with problems.

Having the highest JD Power rating does not mean a vehicle is actually
the best.  Their surveys only give an idea of how happy the buyers
were with their purchases.  If you hated the car to start with and
decided not to buy it then your opinion would not have regestered in
the JD Power survey.  Only people who already picked the car being
surveyed are asked for their feedback.   These surveys actually tell
you more about how accurate the manufacturers were with marrying their
marketing messages and product design.

If you have good experience with research technique then you will
immediately spot problems with this approach to comparing overall
product quality – the sampling of respondents for each product is
immediately biased because they only include the people who picked the
vehicle in the beginning.  If the buyers tend to be non-mechanical and
uninformed about cars then their opinions would tend to reflect their
ignorance but not necessarily reality.  Some buyers are very picky and
they may well be more critical in a survey.  Some cars attract picky
buyers because their image appeals to the hard-driving personality
while others appeal to people who simply look for image.  Surveys like
this are about buyer perception.  Unless you know the buyer well,
their opinions may not apply to your needs.

If a car company sells to image-conscious buyers and delivers a
polished product with good after-sales service (let’s say for at least
12 months) then they have a good chance of a high rating.  However, if
they delivered a performance product that required a lot of fussing
then people with no time on their hands who needed a daily driver
would not be so impressed.   If everyone value the same things in cars
then there would not be the diversity that we see.  People simply have
different preferences.

Surveys tend to favour manufacturers with marketing savvy but it does
not necessarily relate to product "suitability" for any given buyer.

JD Power surveys have not been criticized for lack of reason.  People
read too much into them – if you are really serious about finding the
"right" vehcile for yourself you should do your own 1st-hand research,
that’s the best survey.

I think it says a lot about a buyer and the value of his opinion *if*
he did not just rely on canned surveys to begin with.

Michael

news:au9kb2$5la$4@anubis.demon.co.uk…

> In article <3e08528…@mk-nntp-2.news.uk.tiscali.com>, "Keith Faulkner"
<falco…@tiscali.co.uk> writes:
> >So why have all the Germans voted Lexus best.I have just sold my BMW and
> >bought a Lexus 200. and I think its Great in all respects

> Ah, the "Eat shit, 60,000,000 flies can’t be wrong" argument, from a
> top poster with no taste in cars. Your baseball cap is in the post.

That’s exactly the basis that people buy BMW…

The last decent Bimmer was the 2002…

Personally I love my Mercedes SLK 320

—
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.431 / Virus Database: 242 – Release Date: 17/12/2002

"Huge" <h…@ukmisc.org.uk> wrote in message

news:au9nup$5la$12@anubis.demon.co.uk…

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> In article <ihZN9.291019$pN3.21881@sccrnsc03>, "Carl"
<rosenbl…@attbi.com> writes:
> >Hitler?  Is that you?  You’re back??
> >"Huge" <h…@ukmisc.org.uk> wrote in message
> >news:au858h$pfr$15@anubis.demon.co.uk…
> >> In article <tjMN9.283776$pN3.22016@sccrnsc03>, "Carl"
> ><rosenbl…@attbi.com> writes:
> >> >> Oh, yes. Easily. But I won’t buy Japanese cars of any kind.

> >> >> >do u have money to buy ?

> >> >> >> people who think shell suits and reversed baseball hats are
stylish.
> >> >by
> >> >> >> So what? It’s still a rice burning, ugly as shit, piece of crap
> >bought
> >> >writes:
> >> >> In article <au3vok$a1…@lust.ihug.co.nz>, "Richard" <n…@email.yet>
> >> >news:au44lt$slv$3@anubis.demon.co.uk…
> >> >"Huge" <h…@ukmisc.org.uk> wrote in message
> >> >Carl

> >> >OK, so then you’re here making racist remarks because …. ??

> >> I imagine your mother dropped you on your head. So there’s little
> >> point in explaining.

> Grow up.

> *plonk*

> —
>        "The road to Paradise is through Intercourse."
> The uk.transport FAQ; http://www.huge.org.uk/transport/FAQ.html
>         [email me at huge [at] huge [dot] org [dot] uk]

> Isn’t it amazing how many people are so prejudiced and become hypnotized
> by a Blue propeller. I sold a 320 SE.

I sold a 525. And bought a 528. Your point is?

–
*The most common name in the world is Mohammed *

    Dave Plowman     dave.so…@argonet.co.uk     London SW 12
     RIP Acorn  

news:au858h$pfr$15@anubis.demon.co.uk…

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

> In article <tjMN9.283776$pN3.22016@sccrnsc03>, "Carl"
<rosenbl…@attbi.com> writes:
> >> Oh, yes. Easily. But I won’t buy Japanese cars of any kind.

> >> >do u have money to buy ?

> >> >> people who think shell suits and reversed baseball hats are stylish.
> >by
> >> >> So what? It’s still a rice burning, ugly as shit, piece of crap
bought
> >writes:
> >> In article <au3vok$a1…@lust.ihug.co.nz>, "Richard" <n…@email.yet>
> >news:au44lt$slv$3@anubis.demon.co.uk…
> >"Huge" <h…@ukmisc.org.uk> wrote in message
> >Carl

> >OK, so then you’re here making racist remarks because …. ??

> I imagine your mother dropped you on your head. So there’s little
> point in explaining.

> —
>        "The road to Paradise is through Intercourse."
> The uk.transport FAQ; http://www.huge.org.uk/transport/FAQ.html
>         [email me at huge [at] huge [dot] org [dot] uk]

"Huge" <h…@ukmisc.org.uk> wrote in message

news:au9gkn$5la$1@anubis.demon.co.uk…

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> In article <3e084422$0$21138$fa0fc…@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>, "Paul Dundas"
<p…@advsys.demon.co.uk.spam> writes:

> >"Huge" <h…@ukmisc.org.uk> wrote in message
> >news:au2tde$j7a$1@anubis.demon.co.uk…
> >> In article <4ba87f40c7dave.so…@argonet.co.uk>, Dave Plowman
> ><dave.so…@argonet.co.uk> writes:
> >> >In article <au2fhr$g8…@anubis.demon.co.uk>,
> >> >   Huge <h…@ukmisc.org.uk> wrote:
> >> >> So what? It’s still a rice burning, ugly as shit, piece of crap
bought
> >by
> >> >> people who think shell suits and reversed baseball hats are stylish.

> >> >First time I saw one I couldn’t believe the rear lights. They look
like
> >> >some really nasty boy racer addition.

> >> Don’t they just.

> >And then loads of other manufacturers (including BMW) copies them.

> Good point. Except that you have it ass-backwards. One of the things
> the Japanese are really good at is exploiting markets already
> identified (or established) by others. There is nothing whatsoever
> original about Lexus – the lower end ones are poor ripoffs of BMWs and
> the upper end ones are poor ripoffs of Mercedes. Toyota had to create a
> new brand to exploit these markets because they knew that there was no
> way a customer in them would be seen dead in one.

> —
>        "The road to Paradise is through Intercourse."
> The uk.transport FAQ; http://www.huge.org.uk/transport/FAQ.html
>         [email me at huge [at] huge [dot] org [dot] uk]

> So why have all the Germans voted Lexus best.I have just sold my BMW and
> bought a Lexus 200. and I think its Great in all respects

 What BMW did you have, an Isetta?

–
*The older you get, the better you realize you were.

    Dave Plowman     dave.so…@argonet.co.uk     London SW 12
     RIP Acorn  

news:au2tde$j7a$1@anubis.demon.co.uk…

> In article <4ba87f40c7dave.so…@argonet.co.uk>, Dave Plowman
<dave.so…@argonet.co.uk> writes:
> >In article <au2fhr$g8…@anubis.demon.co.uk>,
> >   Huge <h…@ukmisc.org.uk> wrote:
> >> So what? It’s still a rice burning, ugly as shit, piece of crap bought
by
> >> people who think shell suits and reversed baseball hats are stylish.

> >First time I saw one I couldn’t believe the rear lights. They look like
> >some really nasty boy racer addition.

> Don’t they just.

And then loads of other manufacturers (including BMW) copies them.

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -

> —
>        "The road to Paradise is through Intercourse."
> The uk.transport FAQ; http://www.huge.org.uk/transport/FAQ.html
>         [email me at huge [at] huge [dot] org [dot] uk]

I imported my 323i ASE in June 2000 and saved £6200 in the UK and for the
money I paid
I could have had an IS200,  but the truth is – at that time,  of all the
cars I drove – Merc C240,
A4 2.4, IS200 BMW 323 523, Rover 75 2.5 – the two best cars by miles were
the Rover and
BMW’s.

The IS200 may be wonderfully reliable but has a horrible interior – fussy
dials which are hard to read
quickly – they look nice but thats it.  The interior is such a let down –
all that sort of quilted plastic look
and if you have the light coloured interior – the mix of black and cream
looked horrendous.

It also has a tiny boot,  suffers from too much road noise even at low
speeds and although the engine is
very smooth and revvy – its not powerful enough and the auto option is only
4 speed with no tip control.

I would say its a nice looking car – quite sporty to drive – nice handling
etc, but the performance is missing
and its a whole league below both the Rover and BMW in terms of refinement.
In the UK its is also
crippling expensive as a company car because its relatively old engine is
poor on the CO2 measure.

If I could only afford a 318  - I might consider the IS200 but then the 75
is better than either of those
two anyway – in dark metallic blue with 18" wheels its like a little Bentley
and although its not that sharp to
drive, at least in 2.5 form is goes ok and has superlative refinement.

Just my thoughts….
"John Hall" <j…@slimline-ltd.com> wrote in message

news:au1h91$f1h$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk…

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> I have a four month old BMW 330ci sport. I looked at the IS200 very
closely
> at the time I decided to get a new car. The Lexus was very well equiped
but
> did not drive any better than my 1994 320i coupe so I wnt back to BMW’s.
If
> they cant better a BMW design that’s now 12 years old then don’t bother
> buying one. I was able to import the 330 and paid only a couple of thou
over
> the new Lexus cost, BTW the is300 Lexus was the same cost as the 330.

> Regards,

> John