Electronics makers have known for decades about "single event upsets,"
computer errors from radiation created when cosmic rays strike the
atmosphere.
With more than 3,000 complaints to U.S. regulators of random sudden
acceleration problems in Toyota models, several researchers say single
event upsets deserve a close look.
The phenomenon can trigger software crashes that come and go without a
trace. Unlike interference from radio waves, there’s no way to
physically block particles; such errors typically have to be prevented
by a combination of software and hardware design."
And an anonymous tipster told NHTSA last month that "the automotive
industry has yet to truly anticipate SEUs."
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:43:30 -0700, john wrote:
> Electronics makers have known for decades about "single event upsets,"
> computer errors from radiation created when cosmic rays strike the
> atmosphere.
Methinks your tin-foil hat has been picking these up for a while.
"john" <johngd…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:4b35428e-ad78-48cc-b5a5-b9abe5973094@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com…
> Electronics makers have known for decades about "single event upsets,"
> computer errors from radiation created when cosmic rays strike the
> atmosphere.
> With more than 3,000 complaints to U.S. regulators of random sudden
> acceleration problems in Toyota models, several researchers say single
> event upsets deserve a close look.
> The phenomenon can trigger software crashes that come and go without a
> trace. Unlike interference from radio waves, there’s no way to
> physically block particles; such errors typically have to be prevented
> by a combination of software and hardware design."
> And an anonymous tipster told NHTSA last month that "the automotive
> industry has yet to truly anticipate SEUs."
That is almost as likely as a Gremlin hiding under the hood and
pulling on the throttle.
The friggen electrical charge caused by cosmic radiation isn’t enough
to push a pissants motorcycle around a BB, so it sure as hell won’t
accidentally operate your throttle.
— news://freenews.netfront.net/ – complaints: n…@netfront.net —
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 21:32:22 -0700, Dick Cheney wrote:
> "john" <johngd…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:4b35428e-ad78-48cc-b5a5-b9abe5973094@u19g2000prh.googlegroups.com…
>> Electronics makers have known for decades about "single event upsets,"
>> computer errors from radiation created when cosmic rays strike the
>> atmosphere.
>> With more than 3,000 complaints to U.S. regulators of random sudden
>> acceleration problems in Toyota models, several researchers say single
>> event upsets deserve a close look.
>> The phenomenon can trigger software crashes that come and go without a
>> trace. Unlike interference from radio waves, there’s no way to
>> physically block particles; such errors typically have to be prevented
>> by a combination of software and hardware design."
>> And an anonymous tipster told NHTSA last month that "the automotive
>> industry has yet to truly anticipate SEUs."
> That is almost as likely as a Gremlin hiding under the hood and pulling on
> the throttle.
> The friggen electrical charge caused by cosmic radiation isn’t enough to
> push a pissants motorcycle around a BB, so it sure as hell won’t
> accidentally operate your throttle.
Anything can, and will happen on Planet John…
john wrote:
> Electronics makers have known for decades about "single event upsets,"
> computer errors from radiation created when cosmic rays strike the
> atmosphere.
> With more than 3,000 complaints to U.S. regulators of random sudden
> acceleration problems in Toyota models, several researchers say single
> event upsets deserve a close look.
So why have cosmic rays affected Toyotas more than GM vehicles, which
have had 90% fewer reports of unintended acceleration? If the two
companies don’t use the same chips, then they at least use chips that
were made the same way. OTOH chip manufacturers started to tackle
cosmic ray trouble decades ago, both for space travel (International
Rectifier even now advertises power supplies that can withstand trips
through the Van Allen radiation belts) and, starting around 1980s, for
DRAM chips. But with the latter the problem wasn’t really radiation
from space but from the packaging material for the chips, and that was
solved by switching to low-radiation ceramics (apparently plastic
packaging, now by far the most common, was never affected) and
applying radiation barrier coatings. Also almost all digital chips
are now the CMOS type, a kind of construction that’s naturally more
resistant to radiation because the on/off switch of each transistor is
next to an electrical charge that deflects most radiation particles.
On Mar 17, 10:43 pm, john <johngd…@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Electronics makers have known for decades about "single event upsets,"
> computer errors from radiation created when cosmic rays strike the
> atmosphere.
> With more than 3,000 complaints to U.S. regulators of random sudden
> acceleration problems in Toyota models, several researchers say single
> event upsets deserve a close look.
> The phenomenon can trigger software crashes that come and go without a
> trace. Unlike interference from radio waves, there’s no way to
> physically block particles; such errors typically have to be prevented
> by a combination of software and hardware design."
> And an anonymous tipster told NHTSA last month that "the automotive
> industry has yet to truly anticipate SEUs."
I heard ot was the momentary worm holes, single event upsets are
mistaken for that female monthly event.
On Mar 17, 10:43 pm, john <johngd…@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Electronics makers have known for decades about "single event upsets,"
> computer errors from radiation created when cosmic rays strike the
> atmosphere.
> With more than 3,000 complaints to U.S. regulators of random sudden
> acceleration problems in Toyota models, several researchers say single
> event upsets deserve a close look.
> The phenomenon can trigger software crashes that come and go without a
> trace. Unlike interference from radio waves, there’s no way to
> physically block particles; such errors typically have to be prevented
> by a combination of software and hardware design."
> And an anonymous tipster told NHTSA last month that "the automotive
> industry has yet to truly anticipate SEUs."
Can you spell Faraday cage? Most ECU’s are in metal boxes, and most
have the leads decoupled with ferrite beads, etc.
The car body itself is a large Faraday cage with a few openings..
This is basically BS… Not to mention that for the past few years we
have been in a solar minimum with little real activity. A close
lightning
strike has much the same energy, and how many cars do you see
die on the road when lightning strikes a building nearby? :/
This is really starting to get ridiculous..
<n…@wt.net> wrote in message news:054f2f36-f455-47ae-9a41-
Can you spell Faraday cage? Most ECU’s are in metal boxes, and most
have the leads decoupled with ferrite beads, etc.
\******
It has been a while since I had any interest in this, but IIRC a Faraday
cage such as you describe would probably not be adequate to stop
events related to cosmic "rays".
But it is very unlikely that these sorts of events would lead to repeated
problems in an automotive electronic control unit either.
On Mar 17, 8:43 pm, john <johngd…@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Electronics makers have known for decades about "single event upsets,"
> computer errors from radiation created when cosmic rays strike the
> atmosphere.
> With more than 3,000 complaints to U.S. regulators of random sudden
> acceleration problems in Toyota models, several researchers say single
> event upsets deserve a close look.
> The phenomenon can trigger software crashes that come and go without a
> trace. Unlike interference from radio waves, there’s no way to
> physically block particles; such errors typically have to be prevented
> by a combination of software and hardware design."
> And an anonymous tipster told NHTSA last month that "the automotive
> industry has yet to truly anticipate SEUs."
Additional undocumented feature: Toyota vehicles also act as neutrino
detectors!
Thanks!
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
On Thu, 18 Mar 2010 11:30:07 -0700, Michael wrote:
> On Mar 17, 8:43 pm, john <johngd…@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Electronics makers have known for decades about "single event upsets,"
>> computer errors from radiation created when cosmic rays strike the
>> atmosphere.
>> With more than 3,000 complaints to U.S. regulators of random sudden
>> acceleration problems in Toyota models, several researchers say single
>> event upsets deserve a close look.
>> The phenomenon can trigger software crashes that come and go without a
>> trace. Unlike interference from radio waves, there’s no way to
>> physically block particles; such errors typically have to be prevented
>> by a combination of software and hardware design."
>> And an anonymous tipster told NHTSA last month that "the automotive
>> industry has yet to truly anticipate SEUs."
> Additional undocumented feature: Toyota vehicles also act as neutrino
> detectors!
> Thanks!
I thought that was "deflectors".
On Mar 17, 11:43 pm, john <johngd…@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Electronics makers have known for decades about "single event upsets,"
> computer errors from radiation created when cosmic rays strike the
> atmosphere.
> With more than 3,000 complaints to U.S. regulators of random sudden
> acceleration problems in Toyota models, several researchers say single
> event upsets deserve a close look.
> The phenomenon can trigger software crashes that come and go without a
> trace. Unlike interference from radio waves, there’s no way to
> physically block particles; such errors typically have to be prevented
> by a combination of software and hardware design."
> And an anonymous tipster told NHTSA last month that "the automotive
> industry has yet to truly anticipate SEUs."
A general cosmic ray storm would likely
affect all the other cars on the highway that use
computers at the same time. Radiation particles
that can move through RF shielding and
insulated/shielded wiring that currently protect
car computer would also like irradiate the driver and
passengers of a car as well. Unlike a Electronic
Magnetic Pulse – persistent radiation would
leave a radiation residue not just on the car
but on the driver/passenger – that is the exposed
irradiated objects would likely be contaminated
with radioactive particles that a geiger counter
are radiation meter could detect. Another sign
that they were exposed would be if the driver
showed signs of radiation poisoning.
Ah so! Most honorable computer chips from Toyota made in Japan are
most polite. Every time they see a cosmic ray go by, they bow. And
every so often, when they bow, they knock an electron loose which
rolls around in the circuits. And the electron is not honorable
Japanese electron, so it is not polite and can do most embarassing and
rude things. Now are you stupids understanding properly? Amelican cars
are rude! So of course they do not fold up with the first little sign
of radiation storms!
Whether its cosmic rays, your cell phone, or someone keying a nearby CB
radio, the most probable cause of the subsequent ‘sudden acceleration’
is the software and how well it was written to handle errors.
Either due to external events or unanticipated input conditions, all
software will occasionally end up in some unanticipated state. The trick
is to build in proper exception handling, including hardware watchdog
circuitry to identify such errors and either restore the system to
proper operation, or drive it into some safe ‘limp home’ state.
–
Paul Hovnanian mailto:P…@Hovnanian.com
——————————————————————
43rd Law of Computing:
Anything that can go wr
fortune: Segmentation violation — Code dumped
On Mar 25, 1:57 am, mcbrue <mcb…@aol.com> wrote:
> Ah so! Most honorable computer chips from Toyota made in Japan are
> most polite. Every time they see a cosmic ray go by, they bow. And
> every so often, when they bow, they knock an electron loose which
> rolls around in the circuits. And the electron is not honorable
> Japanese electron, so it is not polite and can do most embarassing and
> rude things. Now are you stupids understanding properly? Amelican cars
> are rude! So of course they do not fold up with the first little sign
> of radiation storms!
In comic book fashion, when cosmic rays go through
a Japanese car – the car transforms into a autobot robot
and its driver turns green and gets incredibly strong
but very stupid - and say "Me Hulk very Mad – you
don’t want Hulk Mad!"
On Wed, 17 Mar 2010 20:43:30 -0700 (PDT), john <johngd…@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>Electronics makers have known for decades about "single event upsets,"
>computer errors from radiation created when cosmic rays strike the
>atmosphere.
>With more than 3,000 complaints to U.S. regulators of random sudden
>acceleration problems in Toyota models, several researchers say single
>event upsets deserve a close look.
>The phenomenon can trigger software crashes that come and go without a
>trace. Unlike interference from radio waves, there’s no way to
>physically block particles; such errors typically have to be prevented
>by a combination of software and hardware design."
>And an anonymous tipster told NHTSA last month that "the automotive
>industry has yet to truly anticipate SEUs."
LOL. So NOW it’s Elvis hitching a ride in the Big Gray Lizard Alien’s
Spaceship that’s to blame. All those tinhat wearing Republicans are
gonna go nuts!!! And I figured it was some Jap on a deserted island
pushing bamboo under the keyboard of an Apple that got washed over.
Hey, maybe I’ll see THAT on "Lost" next week!!!
On Mar 25, 6:22 am, dbu” <nos…@nobama.com.invalid> wrote:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> In article
> <958daf6b-5880-4e5f-b3e7-1fe0653ec…@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
> mcbrue <mcb…@aol.com> wrote:
> > Ah so! Most honorable computer chips from Toyota made in Japan are
> > most polite. Every time they see a cosmic ray go by, they bow. And
> > every so often, when they bow, they knock an electron loose which
> > rolls around in the circuits. And the electron is not honorable
> > Japanese electron, so it is not polite and can do most embarassing and
> > rude things. Now are you stupids understanding properly? Amelican cars
> > are rude! So of course they do not fold up with the first little sign
> > of radiation storms!
> Planes, space shuttles and Toyota engineered vehicles are protected
> against EMI.
> —
Holy Space Shuttles! Now NASA is involve!
"Elmo P. Shagnasty" <el…@nastydesigns.com> wrote in message
news:elmop-F8636A.19023428032010@news.eternal-september.org…
> In article <4BABFFF6.7A072…@Hovnanian.com>,
> "Paul Hovnanian P.E." <P…@Hovnanian.com> wrote:
>> Whether its cosmic rays, your cell phone, or someone keying a nearby CB
>> radio, the most probable cause of the subsequent ‘sudden acceleration’
>> is the software and how well it was written to handle errors.
> Wrong.
> The most probable cause of "sudden acceleration" is the nut behind the
> wheel who doesn’t have a clue that he just hit the wrong pedal, who
> refuses to acknowledge that he could possibly have hit the wrong pedal,
> and a public who refuses to hurt his feelings by even recognizing that
> such a thing COULD EVER happen.
-
LOL….funny how a lot of those "sudden accelerations" happen when people
are pulling into a parking spot
"Neo" <residualselfimage1…@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:00783eff-0b28-4ddc-9408-06f61c4c6d99@z3g2000yqz.googlegroups.com…
On Mar 25, 6:22 am, dbu” <nos…@nobama.com.invalid> wrote:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> In article
> <958daf6b-5880-4e5f-b3e7-1fe0653ec…@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
> mcbrue <mcb…@aol.com> wrote:
> > Ah so! Most honorable computer chips from Toyota made in Japan are
> > most polite. Every time they see a cosmic ray go by, they bow. And
> > every so often, when they bow, they knock an electron loose which
> > rolls around in the circuits. And the electron is not honorable
> > Japanese electron, so it is not polite and can do most embarassing and
> > rude things. Now are you stupids understanding properly? Amelican cars
> > are rude! So of course they do not fold up with the first little sign
> > of radiation storms!
> Planes, space shuttles and Toyota engineered vehicles are protected
> against EMI.
> —
Holy Space Shuttles! Now NASA is involve!
**************
–
Seems like Obama has cut their space budget. Maybe this is a way to "create
jobs" at NASA.
> So why have cosmic rays affected Toyotas more than GM vehicles,
Um…, because they’re made differently perhaps?
Ben
"larry moe ‘n curly" <larrymoencu…@my-deja.com> wrote in
news:c0d9e344-c5aa-4ecc-9cd9-4f550c585088@k4g2000prb.googlegroups.com:
> john wrote:
>> Electronics makers have known for decades about "single event
>> upsets," computer errors from radiation created when cosmic rays
>> strike the atmosphere.
>> With more than 3,000 complaints to U.S. regulators of random sudden
>> acceleration problems in Toyota models, several researchers say
>> single event upsets deserve a close look.
> So why have cosmic rays affected Toyotas more than GM vehicles, which
> have had 90% fewer reports of unintended acceleration?
Because they break down for oh so many *other* reasons?
–
(setq (chuck nil) car(chuck) )
On Mar 30, 2:58 pm, "Wayne" <mygarbage…@verizon.net> wrote:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -
> "Neo" <residualselfimage1…@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:00783eff-0b28-4ddc-9408-06f61c4c6d99@z3g2000yqz.googlegroups.com…
> On Mar 25, 6:22 am, dbu” <nos…@nobama.com.invalid> wrote:
> > In article
> > <958daf6b-5880-4e5f-b3e7-1fe0653ec…@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com>,
> > mcbrue <mcb…@aol.com> wrote:
> > > Ah so! Most honorable computer chips from Toyota made in Japan are
> > > most polite. Every time they see a cosmic ray go by, they bow. And
> > > every so often, when they bow, they knock an electron loose which
> > > rolls around in the circuits. And the electron is not honorable
> > > Japanese electron, so it is not polite and can do most embarassing and
> > > rude things. Now are you stupids understanding properly? Amelican cars
> > > are rude! So of course they do not fold up with the first little sign
> > > of radiation storms!
> > Planes, space shuttles and Toyota engineered vehicles are protected
> > against EMI.
> > —
> Holy Space Shuttles! Now NASA is involve!
> **************
> –
> Seems like Obama has cut their space budget. Maybe this is a way to "create
> jobs" at NASA.- Hide quoted text –
> – Show quoted text –
The problem with the cosmic rays theory
is that it would effect electronics devices everywhere
so you would not just have runaway Priuses but
other electronic devices going nuts too.
From what I’ve seen so far the Prius
electronics seem to be shielded and protected as
well as any other car. The funny thing is that the
2005-2008 Prius (2nd Gen) is designed and built
more like a conventional car than the 2010 Prius (3rd Gen).
which has no reported brake/acceleration problems
(other than some speed freaks still think it accelerates
too slowly)
It’s time like these that I wish we had a
clone of Dr. Feyman – so we could ask
him – "Hey, Mr. Wizard can you explain all of this?"